vrijdag, december 15, 2006
the year hope withered
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10414868
Tse.
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace.”
The Year Hope Withered
[...] Eight kilometres away in Gaza City, Adeeb Zarhouk, 44, is a man used to hard work and 4am starts to support his wife Majda, 44, and their seven children. For 20 years he was employed in Israel as a freelance metalworker and electrician, and then for five working for an Israeli company in the now flattened Erez industrial zone on the northern edge of Gaza.But this morning he apologises for being asleep when we call.
Each day, he hopes for a request to install a TV satellite or do another odd job. "But the phone hasn't rung for two weeks. Nobody has any money to do these things."
Zarhouk is the human face of the 64 per cent increase in "deep poverty" among Palestinian refugees in the past year.
He is naturally cheerful but, as his wife prepares a three-shekel (about $1) family breakfast of beans, felafal and a few tomatoes, he says: "When I'm at home by myself I start crying. When your son asks you for half a shekel and you don't have it ... "
Zarhouk gets up to wash the tears from his eyes. Then he says that although as a refugee he earned US$240 ($349) a month on a three-month UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency) job programme, he now owes $540 in rent.
Who does Zarhouk, who voted Fatah in the last election, blame? "I blame democracy," he says with a flash of sarcasm. "The whole world wanted us to have democracy and said how fair had been our election. The problem is they didn't like our result."[...]
People like Zarhouk I used to work with for many, many long years. At the pharmaceutical office, at the im- and export office, at the hi-tech office - they'd used to be everywhere. We privately represented some constructors here in Israel - just doing the PR work for them - obtaining new jobs, customers. Handing out business-cards etc.
Tse.
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace.”
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These are the real stories of this conflict.
Unfortunately, we hear more about the egos of Rice, Olmert, Lipni, Bush, Abbas, Haniyeh.
All the while, it's the people on the ground that get hurt.
And nobody hears their cries.
Unfortunately, we hear more about the egos of Rice, Olmert, Lipni, Bush, Abbas, Haniyeh.
All the while, it's the people on the ground that get hurt.
And nobody hears their cries.
It hurts me so much seeing that these very decent, friendly and honest people are victims of this hell-hole of a region kidnapped by 'leaders'.
you gave too much credit to the very decent, friendly and honest people ...the leaders who kidnap the regions go through elections procedures once in four years ... hamas was not produced out of the thin air
you gave too much credit to the very decent, friendly and honest people ...the leaders who kidnap the regions go through elections procedures once in four years ... hamas was not produced out of the thin air
i am often wondering tsedek .. when you see hundreds of thousands strong hamas demonstrations in gaza, do you make any connection between them and what you call as very decent, friendly and honest people ? or do you think that the pictures are coming from mars or jupiter ?
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/
archive/archive?ArchiveId=21259
=================================
Please paste this link that dates from straight after the elections together and read, Nobody... Read how many times the word "hope" is uttered. Read also how many times the name of Israel is mentioned... You'll be surprised to find out how little the Gazans care about the connection between Israel and Hamas.
~~~~~The Palestinian people, they say, have certain priorities, first among them personal security and survival.
"A family with 10 children living under the poverty line is not going to think first about relations of the new parliament with Israel or the US or the EU. He is going to think about how he can feed those children," said Nabulsi.
"Not everything is about peace. We have to get our house in order. We are suffering from a real moral crisis. We need to learn some manners.
Nabulsi continued: "We need to learn how to raise our children properly. We need to clean our streets. And, mostly, we need security. We need to do all of these things before we make can even speak about a state."~~~~~
===============================
Nobody, do you sometimes read WHAT exactly Israel is doing to Palestinian people? (and I'am not referring to military actions) Do you have any idea to what extent 'bitachon' is being misused causing terrible suffering upon PEOPLE?
Nobody, sweetie - I'm absolutely not defending the hard-core unconvincable 'terrorists' - that are filled with pure hatred and can't move on to finding solutions that include the reality we live in today taking into considerations everybody here & now. But, I'm convinced that those are a minority. I'm speaking the truth when I say that ALL the Palestinians I knew personally and/or worked with were 'common'people like you and me, just struggling to make it through the month...
archive/archive?ArchiveId=21259
=================================
Please paste this link that dates from straight after the elections together and read, Nobody... Read how many times the word "hope" is uttered. Read also how many times the name of Israel is mentioned... You'll be surprised to find out how little the Gazans care about the connection between Israel and Hamas.
~~~~~The Palestinian people, they say, have certain priorities, first among them personal security and survival.
"A family with 10 children living under the poverty line is not going to think first about relations of the new parliament with Israel or the US or the EU. He is going to think about how he can feed those children," said Nabulsi.
"Not everything is about peace. We have to get our house in order. We are suffering from a real moral crisis. We need to learn some manners.
Nabulsi continued: "We need to learn how to raise our children properly. We need to clean our streets. And, mostly, we need security. We need to do all of these things before we make can even speak about a state."~~~~~
===============================
Nobody, do you sometimes read WHAT exactly Israel is doing to Palestinian people? (and I'am not referring to military actions) Do you have any idea to what extent 'bitachon' is being misused causing terrible suffering upon PEOPLE?
Nobody, sweetie - I'm absolutely not defending the hard-core unconvincable 'terrorists' - that are filled with pure hatred and can't move on to finding solutions that include the reality we live in today taking into considerations everybody here & now. But, I'm convinced that those are a minority. I'm speaking the truth when I say that ALL the Palestinians I knew personally and/or worked with were 'common'people like you and me, just struggling to make it through the month...
you see tsedek ... there is such a thing which is called responsibility .... trying to clear of any responsibilty so called ordinary people by moving it all to the leaders or whoever is a nice way to keep alive some of your illusions and misconceptions, but practically it will help you very little ...
of course when one is reading about polls that claim that far more than half of the saudies or palestinians believe that the 9/11 attacks were staged by the jews to blame arabs, its not difficult to see that the arabs in general are nothing like you and me ... which i can confirm from my own personal experience...you know ... i dont live here since yesterday ...
but maybe you find this mentality very understandable since once again its about avoiding taking or attributing responsibility
of course when one is reading about polls that claim that far more than half of the saudies or palestinians believe that the 9/11 attacks were staged by the jews to blame arabs, its not difficult to see that the arabs in general are nothing like you and me ... which i can confirm from my own personal experience...you know ... i dont live here since yesterday ...
but maybe you find this mentality very understandable since once again its about avoiding taking or attributing responsibility
Well, Nobody - I still think 'my' way has a better chance of survival than yours. You don't come up with any practical solutions for the jewish people's future in terms of existence in a reasonably safe state - or for the israeli survival in Israel on terms we came to know them either for that matter. You can apply the 'you are guilty because of the leaders you have chosen' bit but that doesn't address the problem. Which is: we, THE PEOPLE, are destined to live together and the sooner you reach out to people the sooner you get to the heart of the problem and thereby a reasonable chance for a solution.
HUMANity has a way of dissolving hatred. Always pointing your finger in one direction who's also suffering the most - doesn't.
Btw: you can keep on pointing, but at least, in the meanwhile, be a 'light among the nations' - or, in other words: don't act like a state of coldblooded, heartless PEOPLE.
HUMANity has a way of dissolving hatred. Always pointing your finger in one direction who's also suffering the most - doesn't.
Btw: you can keep on pointing, but at least, in the meanwhile, be a 'light among the nations' - or, in other words: don't act like a state of coldblooded, heartless PEOPLE.
Well, Nobody - I still think 'my' way has a better chance of survival than yours.
your way of survival has no better chance of survival than that of darfurians in sudan or sunnis and shias slaughtered in iraq ... you survive because this country has an army and support of the US .. its almost painfully cruel to delude oneself this way ...
You can apply the 'you are guilty because of the leaders you have chosen' bit but that doesn't address the problem.
its an understatement to claim that this is what i say ... i say that the arab leaders are not imported from outer space .. if the delegation of israeli arab mk's travel to lebanon and syria to praize the resistance this is not in order to upset their voters... i had enough conversations with israeli arabs to know where it comes from .. the fact that you claim to never hear any of your arab friends say anything in this sense just shows that when communicating with people you hear only what you want to hear ...
Btw: you can keep on pointing, but at least, in the meanwhile, be a 'light among the nations' - or, in other words: don't act like a state of coldblooded, heartless PEOPLE.
no one has a monopoly on being human ... but there is such a thing which is called responsibility .. and your responsibilty is first of all before your family and your people .. dont worry about arabs .. they can take care of themselves if they want ... promoting all sorts of delusional thinking for which your people may pay a huge price is irresponsible and its moral value is very dubious ... just because you find some utopian fantacies so hard to resist is no justification for this ...
your responsibility is first of all before people close to you ... if as a result of another idealistic peace project your family would be blown up in a bus you would be indirectly responsible for this by promoting delusional and wishful thinking ...
there is nothing immoral that we consider one israeli worth ten and even hundred of arabs ... its natural and moral for people to care more for their close ones ... our problem with arabs is not that we are not human enough towards them ..
our problem is that arabs themselves think that one israeli is worth ten and even one hundred of arabs .. otherwise they would never celebrate their senseless divine victories just because they got a few dozens of israelis killed ...
our peace with arabs will come when these assholes realize themselves that one arab is worth ten and even one hundred of israelis and any other price is a waste...
you act on assumption that if what you want to believe in sounds nice then its morally superior ... but its a very immature way of thinking .,. there is an issue of responsibility and consequences ... and this is more important..
your way of survival has no better chance of survival than that of darfurians in sudan or sunnis and shias slaughtered in iraq ... you survive because this country has an army and support of the US .. its almost painfully cruel to delude oneself this way ...
You can apply the 'you are guilty because of the leaders you have chosen' bit but that doesn't address the problem.
its an understatement to claim that this is what i say ... i say that the arab leaders are not imported from outer space .. if the delegation of israeli arab mk's travel to lebanon and syria to praize the resistance this is not in order to upset their voters... i had enough conversations with israeli arabs to know where it comes from .. the fact that you claim to never hear any of your arab friends say anything in this sense just shows that when communicating with people you hear only what you want to hear ...
Btw: you can keep on pointing, but at least, in the meanwhile, be a 'light among the nations' - or, in other words: don't act like a state of coldblooded, heartless PEOPLE.
no one has a monopoly on being human ... but there is such a thing which is called responsibility .. and your responsibilty is first of all before your family and your people .. dont worry about arabs .. they can take care of themselves if they want ... promoting all sorts of delusional thinking for which your people may pay a huge price is irresponsible and its moral value is very dubious ... just because you find some utopian fantacies so hard to resist is no justification for this ...
your responsibility is first of all before people close to you ... if as a result of another idealistic peace project your family would be blown up in a bus you would be indirectly responsible for this by promoting delusional and wishful thinking ...
there is nothing immoral that we consider one israeli worth ten and even hundred of arabs ... its natural and moral for people to care more for their close ones ... our problem with arabs is not that we are not human enough towards them ..
our problem is that arabs themselves think that one israeli is worth ten and even one hundred of arabs .. otherwise they would never celebrate their senseless divine victories just because they got a few dozens of israelis killed ...
our peace with arabs will come when these assholes realize themselves that one arab is worth ten and even one hundred of israelis and any other price is a waste...
you act on assumption that if what you want to believe in sounds nice then its morally superior ... but its a very immature way of thinking .,. there is an issue of responsibility and consequences ... and this is more important..
~~~~~your responsibility is first of all before people close to you~~~~~
I feel close to everyone who thinks like me: peace and dignity for everybody. It's not a label that make me feel close to someone. Got that?
If there are 10 arabs out there and 20 israeli's here who think like me, then I feel close to all 30 of them. All other 90 arabs and 80 israeli's can hang themselves - but instinctively I CANNOT ever feel close to inhumane behavior towards others, no matter under which 'label' they were born.
But, we're drifting away into a direction that has nothing to do with this posting here. I tell you, as a believer in God, that shuffling everything under the cover of 'bitachon' is wrong, is not helping neither the ones suffering from it, but also, in the long run, not israel.
Again: do you have any idea of the hardships Palestinian are living under? To flex a bit on these conditions is NO CRIME!! It is and will not be a security threat.
They ARE people, you know....
I feel close to everyone who thinks like me: peace and dignity for everybody. It's not a label that make me feel close to someone. Got that?
If there are 10 arabs out there and 20 israeli's here who think like me, then I feel close to all 30 of them. All other 90 arabs and 80 israeli's can hang themselves - but instinctively I CANNOT ever feel close to inhumane behavior towards others, no matter under which 'label' they were born.
But, we're drifting away into a direction that has nothing to do with this posting here. I tell you, as a believer in God, that shuffling everything under the cover of 'bitachon' is wrong, is not helping neither the ones suffering from it, but also, in the long run, not israel.
Again: do you have any idea of the hardships Palestinian are living under? To flex a bit on these conditions is NO CRIME!! It is and will not be a security threat.
They ARE people, you know....
Again: do you have any idea of the hardships Palestinian are living under? To flex a bit on these conditions is NO CRIME!! It is and will not be a security threat.
They ARE people, you know....
I don't know what you want to flex there but its not our responsibility what happens these days in Gaza. We simply cannot do for these people what have already done.
When IDF retreated from Gaza I was thinking that at least now we are now left with the West Bank to sort out, as the Palestinians would move the armed struggle there to avoid giving us any pretext for invading Gaza for the second time. But probably one just cannot avoid being delusional or thinking wishfully when it comes to dealing with Arabs, since the Palos immediately did everything to drag us back.
Of course when Hamas has such a shit in its manifesto they just cannot expect the world to support them. Featuring in your official program the hadith of the garkhad tree or claiming that any land conquered under Khalifs (includes Spain apparently too) is not subject to negotiations or concessions, you should got quite a nerve to later show up and complain that the world does not respect your peaceful and democratic aspirations.
But of course you will now claim that the ordinary palestinians are nice people who has nothing to do with this. I am just wondering who are these people who enjoy these pastries Hamas/Jihad are distributing for free on the streets of Gaza after each successful suicide bombing.
They ARE people, you know....
I don't know what you want to flex there but its not our responsibility what happens these days in Gaza. We simply cannot do for these people what have already done.
When IDF retreated from Gaza I was thinking that at least now we are now left with the West Bank to sort out, as the Palestinians would move the armed struggle there to avoid giving us any pretext for invading Gaza for the second time. But probably one just cannot avoid being delusional or thinking wishfully when it comes to dealing with Arabs, since the Palos immediately did everything to drag us back.
Of course when Hamas has such a shit in its manifesto they just cannot expect the world to support them. Featuring in your official program the hadith of the garkhad tree or claiming that any land conquered under Khalifs (includes Spain apparently too) is not subject to negotiations or concessions, you should got quite a nerve to later show up and complain that the world does not respect your peaceful and democratic aspirations.
But of course you will now claim that the ordinary palestinians are nice people who has nothing to do with this. I am just wondering who are these people who enjoy these pastries Hamas/Jihad are distributing for free on the streets of Gaza after each successful suicide bombing.
We simply cannot do for these people what have already done = We simply cannot do for these people more than we have already done
Nobody, Tse is talking about human beings and you are quoting politicians and/or militants. I really think that if you were to see the reality in Gaza with your own eyes, and talk openly to the people there, you would understand her point about our leaders - both Israeli and Palestinian - holding ordinary people hostage to their egos.
Hamas has done a lot of damage to the Palestinian people, it is true, and I certainly have no love for them. But the Israeli government's policies are very short-sighted and counter-productive as well. I write this as an Israeli who has been to Gaza on more than one occasion - and I am no radical leftist, in case you were wondering.
If one cannot feel compassion for people who are suffering, one is losing an important part of oneself.
Hamas has done a lot of damage to the Palestinian people, it is true, and I certainly have no love for them. But the Israeli government's policies are very short-sighted and counter-productive as well. I write this as an Israeli who has been to Gaza on more than one occasion - and I am no radical leftist, in case you were wondering.
If one cannot feel compassion for people who are suffering, one is losing an important part of oneself.
# posted by 
: 8:54 p.m.
: 8:54 p.m.
Nobody, Tse is talking about human beings and you are quoting politicians and/or militants.
you see, lisa ... i am not paid money to be a parrot and to repeat 20 times the same thing ... if it does not insult your intelligence it insults mine ...
but once again ..a special favour for you ... though i dont quote the so called ordinary israeli arabs and the palestinians i personally know, i say that - yes .. I understand where from come these arab MK's who travel to syria/lebanon to express their solidarity with Hezbollah resistance .. where from come israeli arabs who, after their children are killed by hezbollah rockets, appear on al jazeera to say thank you to nasrallah ...
i assure you.. trust me ... the arab leaders like haniya were elected here, on our planet and not on mars ... i know you find it hard to believe .. just trust me...
the fact that their voters then appear on the tv seating in the misery of their humanitarian plight does not guarantee that on the next hamas demonstration in gaza they won't appear in their thousands with their children dressed as suicide bombers with dummy suicide belts .. its the same people that brought them to power in the first place ..
you see, lisa ... i am not paid money to be a parrot and to repeat 20 times the same thing ... if it does not insult your intelligence it insults mine ...
but once again ..a special favour for you ... though i dont quote the so called ordinary israeli arabs and the palestinians i personally know, i say that - yes .. I understand where from come these arab MK's who travel to syria/lebanon to express their solidarity with Hezbollah resistance .. where from come israeli arabs who, after their children are killed by hezbollah rockets, appear on al jazeera to say thank you to nasrallah ...
i assure you.. trust me ... the arab leaders like haniya were elected here, on our planet and not on mars ... i know you find it hard to believe .. just trust me...
the fact that their voters then appear on the tv seating in the misery of their humanitarian plight does not guarantee that on the next hamas demonstration in gaza they won't appear in their thousands with their children dressed as suicide bombers with dummy suicide belts .. its the same people that brought them to power in the first place ..
We simply cannot do for these people more than we have already done
somebody has blinders on. slow motion genocide.
nobody can ever have peace if they are not willing to open their eyes. the world is watching and hating what they see.
better to embrace openness than face a brick wall.
tsedek, sigh is right.
nice post btw. it is people like yourself that give me faith someday israel and palestine can find and answer and move forward.
somebody has blinders on. slow motion genocide.
nobody can ever have peace if they are not willing to open their eyes. the world is watching and hating what they see.
better to embrace openness than face a brick wall.
tsedek, sigh is right.
nice post btw. it is people like yourself that give me faith someday israel and palestine can find and answer and move forward.
# posted by : 12:15 p.m.
: 12:15 p.m.
ya tsedek,
i came here from konfused kid's blog. i was so happy to read what you wrote here- i mean, not happy, but relieved, because it feels somehow relieving to know that others are as hurt and as bothered by it. not just bothered, that's not the right word. just, hurt-- because they know its people no different than them that are hurting down below (in gaza).
i was listening to a palestinian song today and it brought back everything, palestine, how hard it is and how awful-- just feeling like there's no future, and having an awful present and crappy past. (not for me, i'm not palestinian, but the feeling of "it", of people and being there). anyway, there was one line in the song that comes to me now-- a more philosophical line i guess- "he who feels is what i consider a human". so that's for you. you're a real human. (according to mustafa al khatib.)
i miss and love israel so much, and it's such a conflict between pain at what is going on around israel, what israelis are doing, and love of israel. it really touches me to read your writings.
best,
lisa
i came here from konfused kid's blog. i was so happy to read what you wrote here- i mean, not happy, but relieved, because it feels somehow relieving to know that others are as hurt and as bothered by it. not just bothered, that's not the right word. just, hurt-- because they know its people no different than them that are hurting down below (in gaza).
i was listening to a palestinian song today and it brought back everything, palestine, how hard it is and how awful-- just feeling like there's no future, and having an awful present and crappy past. (not for me, i'm not palestinian, but the feeling of "it", of people and being there). anyway, there was one line in the song that comes to me now-- a more philosophical line i guess- "he who feels is what i consider a human". so that's for you. you're a real human. (according to mustafa al khatib.)
i miss and love israel so much, and it's such a conflict between pain at what is going on around israel, what israelis are doing, and love of israel. it really touches me to read your writings.
best,
lisa
# posted by : 9:02 a.m.
: 9:02 a.m.
Thank you, anonymous and Lisa -for commenting - it feels good to know I'm not alone in this. I don't see no other way for 'peoples' living in peace with each other - other than people living in peace with each other. The funny thing is that the latter doesn't seem to represent such a problem at all, compared.... But, we're too used being stuck running after self-identifying lables politicians and other 'leaders' tell us to 'belong' to.
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